Josh Koscheck - "It Is What It Is"

(photo courtesy of CombatLifestyle)

That was one of the frequently uttered phrases Josh Koscheck used in his interview with Fight Network Radio this past Wednesday, July 9th, a few days removed from his memorable victory over UFC veteran and all-around tough SOB Chris “Lights Out” Lytle at UFC 86: Jackson vs. Griffin. In what was one of the more brutal bloodbaths in recent MMA history (Lytle being the bloodbath), Koscheck won by unanimous decision. It was a quote that held meaning in a matter-of-fact sense, not a cocky or flippant one and one that carried weight as the interview went on.

“It is what it is,” Koscheck remarked when asked by host Mauro Ranallo if he thought the 3-round war should have been stopped in the 3rd round, when two deep cuts above Lytle’s right eye inflicted by Koscheck’s formidable ground and pound during the 2nd round continued gushing blood. He felt it was a judgment call and that the fight should have been stopped at the end of the 2nd round. Even after looking up at referee Yves Lavigne a couple of times and feeling that Lytle wasn’t defending himself, the end didn’t come until much later for the two warriors.

Koscheck was reluctant to dish out any more punishment on Lytle considering the sickening amount of blood loss coupled with his dominating performance in the 2nd round, which many believe to be a 10-8 round for the Ultimate Fighter Season 1 alum. He candidly spoke about how he didn’t like to continue punching Lytle because Lytle is a “good, classy opponent” and as a fellow competitor wanted to “look after his well-being”. He reiterated his opinion that Lavigne should have stopped the fight at the end of the 2nd round, when Koscheck hit Lytle with 5-6 straight punches. He brought up a great point in regards to the massive amount of blood in this fight. He worried about Lytle’s children and wife having to witness the carnage and believed the referee should have “done justice to his family” by stopping the fight. Throughout the interview, you get the strong impression that Koscheck believes he is simply carrying out his job, his passion and sincerely doesn’t want to hurt people, least of all Chris Lytle, in this situation.

Ranallo brought up the critics of MMA who undoubtedly will be voicing their opinions after reviewing the fight and how regardless of the strides the sport has made, will be waiting in the wings to point out its apparent brutality. They continued talking about last Saturday’s fight, and if there were points in the fight in which the two guillotine attempts by Lytle were close to submitting Koscheck. He replied that the first attempt wasn’t close but the one in the 3rd round was “a little bit tight but I knew I’d probably get out of it easy”. He believed the fight held a lot of pressure for both fighters, as the “winner goes on and the loser has to think about where they’re at and possibly start all over again”. Koscheck was grateful to be the former. He disclosed that although he never actually watches fights, he did review this one to see from a judge’s perspective if the fight should have been stopped and it seemed to strengthen his opinion to that end. He wanted to try to submit Lytle and felt he could when he had his back but because of the blood and sweat, not to mention Lytle’s proficiency in jiu-jitsu (he’s a black belt), a submission win became unlikely. Regardless, his goal was to finish Lytle, seeing as he’s never been stopped (save for cut stoppages).

Koscheck’s evolution as a well-rounded mixed martial artist seems to be occurring at a rapid rate, his stand up improving by leaps and bounds. For over a year or so he’s been sharpening his striking skills to be on par with his wrestling. You can hear the change in Koscheck’s mentality from the time he was a stubborn fighter who didn’t listen to his coaches. His proudest moment from last Saturday’s fight was that he actually listened to his coach’s game plan. In his words, he admitted, “I just gotta compare myself to what I was in the past. In the past I was a wrestler and I didn’t know anything about stand up so I’m comparing myself to the old days of Josh Koscheck when I used to just shoot and wrestle and take people down and just pound on people. I have a long, long way to go and I continue to work on that. This fight was my coaches’ game plan. Javier Mendez kept telling me everyday and he actually copied off Chris Lytle’s boxing record and made me stick it in my car so that every day when I’d get in my car and go into training I’d remember what the game plan is.” Those sound like words coming from a swiftly maturing fighter.

Nonetheless, the topic of conversation had to touch on Koscheck’s apparent villain status with UFC fans. Ranallo amusingly pointed out that Koscheck can’t seem to “buy much love from the UFC faithful”, to which Koscheck was pragmatic in linking it to the way he was portrayed/edited on The Ultimate Fighter reality show and pointing to the incident in which he hosed down Chris Leben as a turning point in his portrayal as a baddie. He protested the fans getting on his case for being a one-dimensional wrestler on the show, saying, “There’s one-dimensional fighters in the UFC that they cheer for. There are just straight boxers in there that have no ground game and they get taken down and beaten down on the ground”, sounding perplexed at being singled out. But he made note that his battle with Chris Lytle “wasn’t the least exciting fight of the night; there was one fight that was way worse than mine, so that’s kind of I guess a good sign”, in an apparent dig to another fight on the UFC 86 card (any guesses?). And Koscheck realizes his worth as a fighter who often gets a knee-jerk response from MMA fans.

“It is what it is. I want a reaction one way or the other, whether they’re cheering or booing. For me, that’s what I want. I want a reaction and know that I pretty much have an influence with the UFC fans. If they’re just silent, I’m not doing my job. I want a reaction one way or the other. I honestly don’t care if they boo or if they cheer. I think that there are definitely some things in there that were edited [in The Ultimate Fighter] but it is what it is. That was 3 and a half, 4 years ago. I really can’t dwell on the past, I just gotta try to change their opinions and eventually I can hopefully just keep knocking people out in the UFC and they’ll all start cheering for me at some point.”

Mauro Ranallo was able to get Koscheck’s take on his American Kickboxing Academy teammate Jon Fitch’s upcoming title shot against champion Georges’ St. Pierre this coming August 9th in Minneapolis, Minnesota. Having faced the champion previously (at UFC 74 last August), Koscheck had some interesting things to say about the match up.

“I think he matches up very well. Jon Fitch just got his black belt in jiu-jitsu so he’s going to be well schooled on the ground if the fight takes place on the ground. And I think that if Georges St. Pierre plans on wrestling and taking him down, I think Jon Fitch has a great opportunity to get back to his feet. He’s very, very good at getting back to his feet and he’s probably better than me at getting back to my feet from my back. I think that that’s going to play a key role in Fitch’s victory over Georges.”

A tricky moment in the interview came when Ranallo remarked that GSP dominated Koscheck in his realm of wrestling during their fight. Koscheck interjected that he believed Georges did not dominate Koscheck in wrestling but “it’s mixed martial arts. He dominated me in mixed martial arts. If it was just wrestling, I believe that I would kick Georges’ butt in a straight wrestling match”. Koscheck revealed his plan to get in the gym the very next day to be ready for a possible fight in the next 5-8 weeks. He didn’t know of any potential opponents but would be ready for them when the time came. The focus shifted to a caller named Charlie who deemed himself “one of the guys who boos” for Koscheck. He opined that he felt Koscheck was smug on the reality show and that trash-talking Georges St. Pierre definitely wouldn’t win over any fans. He gave Koscheck the opportunity to win him over to which Koscheck unapologetically responded, “The reason for the trash talking against Georges St. Pierre was to sell pay per views. That’s part of the game and that’s part of the sport. The fans need to understand that”. He didn’t hide his respect for the welterweight champion, further saying, “I have nothing but respect for Georges St. Pierre as a fighter and a person. He’s one of the classiest guys in the UFC, if not the classiest guy. He never says anything negative about anybody and I just think he’s just a classy fighter. But that’s part of the game, it’s part of the sport (to sell the pay per view) because at the end of the day, the only way us fighters are going to make more money is by getting more people to buy the events”

The enlightening interview winded down with Koscheck touting his new clothing line, a surf/skate lifestyle line called Mar Clothing. He closed the interview out saying, “It’s a good time to be a mixed martial artist, because there’s plenty of opportunity out there to build careers and different things outside the UFC. Without all my fans out there, whether they’re booing or hating, I just appreciate the opportunity to fight in front of you guys and give you some entertainment and hopefully I can keep winning fights and keep getting cheered and booed, that’s part of the game”.